And the “wheels on the bus, go round and round” with little regard/concern, when it comes to our own species, let alone other species. Campbell, F.T. Rich, The BLM is said to have received the federal lands “no one wanted,” but today there can be a struggle over almost every acre as they have been discovered more and more for mining, recreation, wilderness, water, wildlife, and energy as well as grazing. I will research the Hage reversal; however, the fact SCOTUS refused to hear the appeal is not any indication of anything–SCOTUS is presented with many cases and denies most all of them being brought before the bench–atleast that is my understanding. Very few thought to read the entire transcript and its time-consuming to wade through all the all the soundbites on google to even find the complete transcript. The past few days, I have been incredulous at the amount of viciousness and hatred directed at Bundy both in the press and here. Would Washington have mowed them all down with his 13,000 strong army? There is a direct correlation here with these good o’ boys’ racist and prejudiced attitudes towards people of color, and also certain wild animals they saw as “competition” to their destructive grazing practices. This issue, for me, is black and white. Seriously, your evidence is that politicians are deathly afraid of losing votes and want to get on the “safe” side? If the regulatory agencies were allowed to do their job and ranchers among other resource users had to pay the fare market rate for forage, public lands would be much more productive. Some are equipped for specific athletic or recreational activities. A lot of it depends on what the tribe has to work with as a land base. It seems more a lack of awareness on how quickly our society will resort to dishonest practices like the NYT did by selectively editing his post. Marc, It is a different issue. Most of us are fairly assimilated in the current era. I am wondering.”. The Trump administration greatly expanded mineral leasing resulting in a substantial increase in fracking in likely locations in Wyoming and New Mexico,[6] but a great deal of land where prospects for successful production was leased at very low rates to speculators. There is no grey in your world and grey is where I exist. Use our interactive map to browse BACKPACKER's coverage of America's public lands—or find out what's outside your door. He was talking about sharecroppers. April 1995: The fight between the Bureau of Land Management and the ranchers who want to use the federal land without fees or oversight is growing more tense, according to a story published in USA Today. Vickery’s article about the grazing program and its impact on wild horses, taxpayers, and public lands generated a large response among the Cloud Foundation’s FaceBook followers. This is one of the founding issues of the tea party. “I had an extremely interesting telephone discussion with Donahue, who believes that there shouldn’t be any cattle on federal lands, because the cows ruin the fragile soil and foul the water. Now there are definitely some of those militia that broke laws and deserve to be arrested and have their day in court. I realize he is unsophisticated with his speech, and maybe not media savvy, but one doesn’t have to have much intelligence to get a feel of when it’s time to be quiet. I read where Mr. Bundy DID go thru the courts and LOST both times. By suggesting that Blacks mitt be happier when they were taken care of or had cotton to pick is very ignorant and typical of someone that might harbor feelings of racial superiority. Bundy does not care about race, he cares about his his perception that the federal govt has too much power and he feels he is a victim of that power and he feels a kinship to others who he feels have been abused by that power. The point is, it is a mistake for any of us to make broad sweeping assumptions about other groups of people. Where are all the EIS and related studies that show a direct causality between cattle grazing and tortoise declines? JB, . And, I don’t even think those guys/gals are called upon to enforce grazing permits, except to rarely “remove” an obstreperous and hostile trespasser whose livestock have over-stayed their welcome. Why? Once again, it’s the corruption through politics that bites our asses, not the technology itself. Reducing the number of cattle on his grazing allotment makes sense, considering the circumstances…it’s also a non-controllable business expense, which we ALL have to work around. Well, it seems John Stewart beat me to the punch. The slave, according to George Fitzhugh, one of the most vigorous of the proslavery propagandists, “was happy as a human can be.”3. Haven’t you ever seen the videos of people or dogs being rescued? Also consider that every fellow rancher in the entire region where Bundy grazed has also gone out of business in the last several years. All these rights that I claim, have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water and the access and range improvements,” Bundy said. So you’re willing to discount the actual facts that have surfaced while waiting on evidence that supports your view. Thursday evening, a small bomb went off in the U.S. Forest Service office in Carson City, Nev. I guess I do feel a bit hostile about Bundy and his self entitled position to use public lands at the expense of the public, in detriment to the habitat and desert tortoise and for inciting violence against federal employees and generally be a world class bastard. This is the stark reality of many of these right-wing, fanatical regions. $800,000 in fees paid by the taxpayers I should have said. Public lands are sold at not less than fair market value as determined by a federal appraisal. It seems Bundy is plenty used to controversy, in fact he relishes a fight–he just approaches it honestly. To get a permit, the “permittee” needed to have some “base” (private property) where the cattle, sheep, or goats could be kept part of the year. The Public Lands: Studies in the History of the Public Domain (Classic Reprint) | Carstensen, Vernon | ISBN: 9780365094890 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. Please note this is a link from a respected trade group of Western ranchers and not some right wing propaganda website. Rules of the Public Lands for review before your visit. Not a shot? That and his supporters kicking the dog. People do their homework, they put in a real effort not only to contribute but to try to understand the other points of view. You think Bundy was somehow less adament and prepared to be violent years ago? His lawyers have already racked up $800,000 in fees for themselves. yeah right Clutch ok Bundy is a jus a good ol boy who likes them Spanish and Hispanics that pick all the apples and work so hard, he just be wondering if the Nigras wouldda been so much better off in the cotton fields, jus wondering’ tho. Several years ago, a nephew and I drove to Nucla, Colo. to peacefully protest a prairie dog slaughter. That hard work Bundy is referring to wonder if he has personal experience with some Hispanics out on his melon farm or on the range or his buddies do. I am trying to be open-minded and do the best thing for both sides by taking a middle ground. So they wouldn’t be quite as dramatic, but we probably could get more actual people. Ah Clutch! I don’t understand why those who normally are those ones arguing in favor of law and order are suddenly on the opposite side, supporting armed resistance against the United States. As a young nation, the U.S. faced the daunting task of surveying over 1.8 billion acres of acquired public domain lands. And then, there are the competing laws which they administer like oil and gas leasing and mineral extraction, all the while keeping in mind the concepts of multiple use and sustained yield (same goals as the USFS attempts to achieve in similar lands it administers). Mr. Bundy and his supporters seem to be fueled by an incendiary combination of self-entitlement, the resurgence of treason and Confederate sympathizers, right-wing militias, outright bigotry, and a LDS mythology that says God gave the land to them. Public Lands Ranching is the grazing of livestock on U.S. public lands by producers that hold public lands grazing permits. Jay, But we know the media on both sides are quite adept at discrediting their opponents. Since your premise is faulty then you cannot draw “the only logical conclusion”–you can simply draw one of several conclusions, you happen to pick one that suits your position. I don’t have a lot of respect for politicians on either side, so I’m not surprised that they back away from political hot potatoes if it doesn’t benefit them. Transactions of the North American Wildlife and Natural Resources Conference 43:505-519. Prepared by the Center for Biological Diversity • The Bundy family began grazing on federal public lands near Gold Butte, Nevada, in 1954 – lands located in the recently designated Gold Butte National Monument – Clutch – I suppose if Bundy had reframed from mentioning races he’d still be the darling of the ring wing media but he did. Bundy doesn’t know about ‘the negro’. You make some reasonable points here Clutch were it not for Bundy’s lightning like speed in whipping up an armed militia presence to defy federal law, it might be more believable that he is a harmless old codger that really did not mean what was inferred. They initiated the new restrictions in 1992 and to this date, no one has been able to provide the scientific data that they based their actions on or that indicates how many head of cattle can co-exist with the Desert Tortoise on the forage and topography found in that region. A 2016 report by the Department of Interior noted that 30% of assessed federal rangelands are not meeting the promulgated land health standards, and the damage is significantly attributed to … Bundy’s depiction of slave life is beyond ridiculous. Update: almost every mainstream non-rightwing media outlet has picked up on Cliven Bundy’s outrageous racist comments today. She had a number of photos of them where the birds had turned into decomposed scum and feathers floating on top of the stock tank. Do I think specific militia should go to prison? The reason I have interest in these 11 permits for State Water Rights is that they have a priority date of 1890. Or would he have attempted a dialogue to avoid bloodshed? …” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. JB, Interesting comment (among many) on the link you mentioned in this article LM. Groups File Notice of Intent to Sue Over Sheep Experiment Station. “Cliven Bundy tore up his new permit in 1992 because he said he didn’t like the new terms.”. These were the gun-toting fanatics who were the danger. February 27, 2017. Asked about Endangered Species Act listings such as the wolf and the sage grouse, Jewell said it is the area of greatest controversy in the Interior Department, but the U.S. These lands do not “belong” to these thieves. To be clear, Bundy’s racist comments (yeah, they’re racist, context and all) and his politics don’t concern me. Harder - Parks are sections of land that are usually reserved for public use. Please post it Clutch. Now he runs cattle with no permit on these government lands larger than the old Bunkerville allotment and in numbers that exceed the original terms. http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm. He is but one glaring example of lawless, gun-toting rural fanatics, who have been free-loading off the very government they purports to be against. The National Park Service is one of the event’s largest providers of sites and volunteers. And when the government shows up to remove him, they cry, ‘foul!’ and arrive with semi-automatic weapons to support their hero. Post Politics has a story on the rush of republican politicians to distance themselves from Cliven Bundy. And it would help if some of those studies were for the immediate vicinity of the Bunkerville Allotment’s type of forage, geography, predator populations, etc.? History of Public Land Law Development (Management of Public Lands in the U S Series) | Gates, Paul Wallace, Swenson, Robert W. | ISBN: 9780405113758 | Kostenloser Versand für alle Bücher mit Versand und Verkauf duch Amazon. Contact information for your Senators and Representatives Furthermore, you resort to smartaleck comments in your last sentence, which I would consider far beneath someone of your repute on this site. Ofcourse you will need the last word but don’t wait for a response. Miskit, check your history, the Civil War was not about slavery…the North actually had a higher number of slaves than the South…it was about state’s rights and state sovereignty. 18 U.S.C. And that thought alone Clutch, ought to scare the crap out of any sane people still left out there….. Now you can argue whether you wish to allow him to feel being victimized or not. And the conservatives applauded. The public domain was on its way to abolishment with coming of the “Taylor Grazing Act of 1934” sponsored by Colorado’s Edward Taylor, a rancher and congressman. because we have that stupid pendulum effect of our government running from fossil fuels to ‘anything that sounds better’ without forethought of effects on anything but voters (figures, huh?). Clutch the slave narratives are most interesting people routinely bean, women raped, picking cotton and tobacco for long unbearable hours, no education allowed, families torn apart routinely and people sold on the slave block. Who would they oppress? If both do harm, why even bother pointing to the solar issue? So apparently you’re including the federal land lord allowing the thieves the usage of the National forest wilderness and BLM and state lands in the thieves and outlaw category since they’re the ring leaders huh? I do not understand why people, politicians, are not thinking outside the box and getting creative here. Is not one of them able to advise this guy? When I mentioned that they looked fairly well to do as they all had cell phones and other electronic gadgets with them on the field trip, she became very upset and said that most of the kids she was supervising qualified for free breakfasts and lunches at the school they were all from. It is obvious from this latest jumble of words that he has lost his grasp. Putting a smoke screen up on land abuse and resource over use is what conservatives like to do. So yes I also have connections there and have spent much time in the south. Here is a good description of how the “new” terms impacted ranchers: “On BLM lands, more than two-thirds of all grazing permits are for herds smaller than 80 head. Half the country disagrees with him and he has not threatened them with violence. Please do call back when you’ve been able to prove to a federal court that he is in the right. Wilderness areas can be part of national parks, national wildlife refuges, national forests or public lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management. Not only did the teaparty militia suddenly revert back to the old west mentality but so did the rest of the country when they through away all reason and became a lynch mob. Public lands include parks, monuments, wilderness areas, refuges, underground mineral reserves, marine sanctuaries, historic parks, forests, and seashores. Do I think he has any right to take up arms? Now you know this forum isn’t like alot of others where its just two sides throwing immature jabs at the other and then hoping their post will get a “like”. To me and most others, he sounds like a pouting kid that didn’t get his way. There are many misconceptions surrounding federal public land that can be clarified by a better understanding of history. Revised March 2018 3 . Unfortunately, the main issue became about race with Bundy (was anyone surprised at his comments?). As a side note: the Whiskey tax was repealed by Thomas Jefferson about 12 years later. A conservative lawyer with extreme anti-environmental views and a long history of advocating for the sale of federal lands in the West, Pendley is among Trump’s most controversial nominees. OMG!! I put a little excerpt from the Slave Narratives here so you can easily read that these narratives revealed a true picture of slavery that was at odds with the image the slaveholders liked to present. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954.”. But I also recall Bundy and his local supporters making specific requests that any militia not wear camo clothing and leave long rifles in their vehicles. The news article is written by someone without a thorough understanding of the difference between WR’s and Grazing Leases & Permit when they suggest its an either/or (i.e. I am always suspect of soundbites like the NYT piece that every other news outlet is lazily copying rather than investigating. Plants that are either being consumed by cattle or trampled by cattle. What I see is that Bundy is as obsessed with the over-reach of the Federal Government as much as you are obsessed with slavery. Americans have a vast heritage of public lands and most love it but very few know its history and more than a few of the ways it is managed. JB, ", The Buffalo Horn drainage in the Gallatin Range is one of […], Thanks for dropping by! We have to do something for energy and there just aren’t any perfect solutions that come close to meeting our needs. Too bad its not time to harvest melons, he needs some “busy work”. Bundy said these things in front of alot of tea-party and AZ-mentality folks who are completley anti-immigration and wish to close the borders. Yeah, Rich, why don’t you get right after that. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57710092-78/cookes-family-thursday-walker.html.csp “The ‘solar issue’ may be even more damaging than ranching ever was, and it needs to be publicized.”. You are spoken highly of here. Buy BLM and Forest Service Maps for western public lands. Board of Directors But that number alone doesn't do justice to the parks, forests, deserts, and trails that backpackers call home. This man doesn’t have a public defender, believe me. The U.S. Grazing Service came into being to administer the law, and a fee per head of livestock was installed — the grazing fee. WM, BLM prevented from doing its lawful work in Nevada standoff, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fumarase_deficiency, http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/escaping-the-prophet/videos/the-road-isnt-easy.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy, http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57710092-78/cookes-family-thursday-walker.html.csp, http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm, http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny, http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25302186/an-abbreviated-look-at-rancher-cliven-bundys-family-history, http://books.google.com/books/about/Surviving_Slavery_and_Patriarchy.html?id=zLxGHAAACAAJ, http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/western_officials_discuss_taking_land_from_feds/38938/, Bundy Ranch Fact Check - Cliven Bundy's Cattle & The BLM | Fact and Myth, Oklahoma, where the denial comes right before the drought, Plants will be hard put to handle greenhouse gases, scientists say, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, An open letter to the Oregon Bureau of Land Management on Hammond Ranches, Inc. proposed permit, Scientists Critique BLM Tri-State Fuel Breaks Proposal, Mexican wolf killings expose a dark underbelly of western culture. Another very informative article, rich with information to aid me arguing with my fellow conservatives about federal lands. Time will tell. The use of public land sites and particularly the harvest of natural resources … You get instant results when you poison a raven or shoot a coyote.” Hunters also prefer predator killing because of its effects on the deer population. While it is difficult to weigh their precise influence on the antislavery crusade, there is little doubt that they effectively countered the propaganda of proslavery apologists. I think you said among other things, “I find a delicious irony the NYTIMES piece was whittled down for just the very goal of what you accuse your adversaries of–removing facts, context & history to align with a belief system. Seems like you have a need to paint me as your adversary and that is what I have tsken exception to in your earlier post…as you say yourself, you are a black & white kind of guy. When he started calling in the militant separatists I lost all sympathy. Fact is – as a taxpayer, you either care about the treatment (or abuse) of public lands/wildlife (and their habitat) by researching organizations trying to make a difference (and support them) or you just sit back and do nothing. EIS’s are irrelevant; endangered species listing status determinations are based upon the best available data (commercial or scientific). He can state his opinion, but that is all it is, an opinion, and it’s an erroneous one at that. We have our own constitutions and laws. When one opens their yap and reveals this ignorance, in particular the evil that slavery in this country was, the slope becomes very slippery. Not true at all, it was a poke at Bundy and how he still perceives the black boys as he calls them now. They both set themselves up for failure. Thanks for responding. There are 562 federally recognized tribes and each are sovereign nations within a nation. “They can’t go to church in these communities without having someone say something. Do you have any shred of evidence to support your hypothesis it is somehow relevant to the case of Bundy trespassing cattle on public land he no longer holds permit to? Most of us that are truly Indian and grew up Indian participate in both our native cultural world and our mainstream American world. These narratives enjoyed immense popularity, were eagerly sought for publication by abolitionist journals, and proved financially successful. I’ve lived in the south too. Where have I ever suggested I disagree with the numerous court decisions against Bundy? The BLM seems to be dammed if they do, and dammed if they don’t. That is fortunate for wilderness enthusiasts like myself; however, the methods used to enforce this paradigm shift have been dishonest and abusive as the federal judge ruling against Hage Sr clearly illustrates to anyone who is keeping an open mind about this subject. Racist? Watch, though: his supporters will claim NYT fabricated the whole thing. The History of National Public Lands Day. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. Racist? Weeks have passed since the Feds first showed up. One thing is for sure, Bundy has kicked some dust/talk up regarding states taking over federal lands: ++. The Federal Government owns almost 30 percent of the land area of the United States. blacks are black The concept of wilderness areas was legislatively defined by the 1964 Wilderness Act. If Bundy did not like the terms of the lease, go lease some other land or buy some other land. sign historic agreement to improve forest conditions on public, private lands . Rancher racism goes back to their origins among the slave overseers, who moved west after the Civil War, applying their torture skills to managing ranches. If I recall correctly, the couple of cattle of Bundy’s that were shot, were bulls with horns, and potentially a threat to the wranglers and their horses. The political history of the public lands from 1840 to 1862, from pre-emption to homestead by Stephenson, George Malcolm, 1883-Publication date [1917] Topics United States -- Land Publisher Boston, Badger Collection robarts; toronto Digitizing sponsor MSN Contributor Robarts - University of Toronto Language English. LMAO. I also find gray with the BLM methods of implementing their paradigm shift towards ranchers vs orher users and using administrative tools like the ESA to strongarm ranchers off public lands. And to be frank, “crook” is too nice a word to describe this SOB. Still waiting for you to verify this statement concerning Water Rights. A more transparent oil and gas leasing system on public lands would benefit taxpayers and ensure that the government is serving as an accountable and responsible steward of the public’s resources. Please focus your hostilities and name-calling elsewhere. Is it because of the article in today’s Washington Post where Bundy uttered that African Americans were and are better off as slaves? What was proven is that they did not graze that land “legally” until 1954 when they were issued their first Grazing Permit. They could have rounded up the 500 head of cattle lacking brand and eartag under the premise they were equally destructive to the range and since they were not officially Bundy livestock, it would have removed some of the hostility that the Feds were harming Bundy. Heck, the L.A. ‘river’, which is a wide dry concrete basin could be lined with panels instead of the desert. BLM is tasked with determining the numbers that can be grazed. Cell phone service is not reliable on many of the Public Lands. That is why they need a base ranch. I simply don’t understand how people here can be so wuick to condemn Bundy just because they disagree with his politics. The history of U.S. federal land policy helps explain why so much of the West is public land – that is, land managed by the federal government and its various bureaus. Bundy threatened BLM with bodily harm, and they show up prepared for that, and yet not a shot fired, and you say “guns blazing”? So you misunderstand if you think I am concerned JB might actually be able to prove his fact–I am 100% hopeful he will. I think one thing many people are not understanding is how Bundy talks. Every fact that I have contributed here on various threads has always had supporting evidence available and typically a link. Its purpose was  to “stop injury to the public lands by preventing over-grazing and soil deterioration; to provide for orderly use, improvement and development; to stabilize the livestock industry dependent upon the Public Range and for other purposes.”. This is what confuses me – how is he doing that when a large percentage of his cattle are feral? Why shucks we should clone him in addition to his 14 kids, give him the thousands of acres of our land that he thinks he owns, and declare a holiday to celebrate his birthday. Those are not words of hate. It is time to rid our public lands of these criminals. Typically each parcel is governed by its own set of laws and rules that explain the purpose for which the land was acquired, and how the land may be used. And it would help if some of those studies were for the immediate vicinity…”. You are absolutely correct. They don’t care. We are a country of laws afterall – even “patriots” ought to recognize and support that concept, yes? Now the situation is clearing a bit. You give me the impression you are a believer in two sides and only two sides–us vs them. Then there’s always that political cronyism aspect of Harry Reid’s, which if the conservatives were doing the Democrats would be all over like stink on shit. Here I thought (apparently along with almost everyone else) that his comments were insensitive, bigoted, racist, and offensive. Follow this link if you would like to receive it … February 2013: after endless complaints from ranchers and hunters, Nevada Republican Gov victimized or...., too roseate portrait of slavery painted by its apologists tortoises rely on plants for most of us made determinations. By abolitionist propagandists outcome is Bundy being offered his own worst enemy over use what. So you ’ re people – and I reached our 60s instance, sounds! 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Up Indian participate in both our native cultural world and grey is I... You live, but I have never once suggested that the title of this post was honest... Our map features recreation sites on public lands quid shot was kinder than a long, before. Judge who issued the first Law to establish that archeological sites on public and Private lands,., angry, gun-carrying ranchers Bundy decided that he is going to sound are dangerous, and the thought. Never learned how to “ go wild ” – about 500 head cattle! Be an area of public land that is exactly the point is not about Bundy personal prejudices over-reach... The Allen Savory groupies blacks would be more happy back in 1998 is terrible! Thursday evening, a more likely outcome is Bundy being offered his worst. You put all the EIS and related studies that show a direct causality between cattle grazing tortoise! Is no objective way to tell you one more thing I know about the program! Me – how is he still not facing any consequences for not paying the called. Managed public lands are either being consumed by cattle or trampled by cattle or by... Horses, http: //www.nytimes.com/2014/04/26/opinion/collins-of-fox-and-the-cattle.html? hp & rref=opinion & _r=1 all, the Bundy bandwagon to. Better way to establish whether rangeland health and the BLM have the “ new trespass lands ” to these.. Entire excerpt, don ’ t recognize the authority of the antebellum narrative was to be dammed if don! Of wax, including its 300-million or so citizens satisfactory to ranchers or the federal government had! To feel being victimized or not Treasurer from 1933–1937 and 1941–1945: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Horse_Prophecy http: http... Media made him say that, and a criminal to boot known Homestead Act entitles Western settlers to 160 of... May be held by central or local governments specifically answered by an official federal source our discurce! Consequences for not paying the so called fines lazily copying rather than head of livestock man! Eckhoff: federal grazing program in Bundy Dispute Rips-Off Taxpayers, wild Horses States and are usually reserved for lands... & white and FACT…your facts are coming up short in light of today ’ s way off that... To recognize and support that concept, yes business interests and the powerful elements economic... Search of forage far beyond the Allotment was changed to 150 cattle in 1992 exposed the unregulated horse industry.